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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  January 10, 2014 1:00pm-2:01pm PST

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island. >> i'm sand. i'm conflicted. i'm sad. >> no republicans came to his defense. >> put everything on the table. >> this is the exception of what's happened over the last four years. >> they are all sharpening their knives. >> i'm not a focus group tested, blow dried candidate. >> me will be lea >> he will be leaving the governor's office before his time is up. >> to be clear, there was no traffic study. >> i wouldn't know a traffic study if i tripped over it. i am who i am, but i'm not a bully. we are learning much more today about the controversy involving chris christie and the closing of the nation's busiest
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bridge for what some call revenge. state lawmakers released thousands of additional documents into these lane closures. it follows some face-saving moves on part of christie. he announced the firing of a top aid. >> i knew nothing about this. i am humiliated about the fact that i didn't know about this. i'm extraordinarily disappointed by this, but this is the exception. it is not the rule. >> the verdict is not out yet, but so far christie appears to have answered some of the questions about what he knew and when and according to many, that is enough.
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>> i think that had he known about this he never would have made a joke about it earlier. he would have treated it very differently. >> we're going to take the conversation right to our panel. we have former governor howard dean and former dnc chair and alex wagne al alex wagner. we're going to get to some of these new disclosures in the documents. as a former governor yourself, is this damage to chris christie permanent? >> we don't know yet. i think he, in general, did a good job yesterday, but he took an enormous risk. if any documents come to light later on, some of which will be subpoenaed, if it shows that it did know about it, he's done.
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politically, he's done. if something doesn't come up, he'll probably get through this. here's the damage that is permanent. he had something going for him in his pugnaciousness, if you will. people loved it when he stood up to the media and unions. groups that may not be popular. treating constituents and mayors like this, people don't like it. >> governor, i think that is an important point. that's why this is not a story about traffic. it is not only about the tools of abuse, but a larger question about how many people who were senior aids and advisers so christie saw government as a tool of political payback. >> if we're talking about this
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in the context of his president candidate in 2015, what does chris christie look like? these are his closest advisers he's had to subsequently left go. this is the community that he fosters inside the state house. this is the organizing principal among christie's closest aids. >> we want to take this over to new jersey now and keep you guys with us in the conversation. i want to bring in state senator paul sarlow. welcome. >> good to be with you. >> there's one item that looks potentially important and shows patrick foy who during this crisis called the lane closures quote, hasty and ill advised and raised the question over whether
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the closures would violate the law. there's talk in those same new documents being reviewed today about keeping that entire question, including what he was asking, keeping that secret. what do you make of what we're learning today? >> well, there is going to be a lot of documents that are going to need to be gone through not only by the legislature, we recognize state and federal prosecutors as well will be looking at these documents. we have a lot to learn. these documents are just a few. there are many more documents that we're going to need to get our hands on to get to the bottom of this. >> senator, you speak to the motives. i want to be clear for those who haven't followed every step of the chris christie sort of payback issue here. you had a very public fight with him.
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i want to play some sound of the governor speaking about you in the last year. take a listen. >> i simply could not be party to the destruction of helen's reputation. i was not going to let her loose to the animals. >> that reference to animals included you and some of your colleagues. that was just a day or two before a lot of this took off. do you see a connection there and what is the status of your relationship with the governor now? >> listen, the governor respects me as the chairman of the senate budget and appropriations committee, but i'm a legislator that fights back. he respects those who punch back. it is unfortunate sometimes, but that's the way it works. we have a good working relationship, but i am concerned. as a legislator, i'm very concerned about a political
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campaign hurting residents of the burgon county. we have a lot of work to do here. the governor came out yesterday -- i give him a lot of credit for his press conference. >> what do you think of that? there's a line, right? there's a legal line and ethical line and it is one that senior aids to christie are crossing. >> how do you hire a staff that doesn't do things your way? the answer is, you don't. you create the culture. that's his big liability right now. i thought he did a good job defending himself yesterday. is this the kind of office he runs? yes, it is. it usually starts at the top. it's one thing to get in an
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argument with a senator. that's all politics. the governor said yesterday, it is not bean bag. it's another thing to disadvantage constituents who pay your salary because you're in a political incident. that's clearly over the edge. if he was involved in doing that in any way, that's the end. >> what we're looking at here in this press conference that he provided yesterday is clearly on optics a strong defense. on substance, he didn't speak a lot about those people affected. the apology tour he launched came only after he got busted. he's known about this incident for a long time. >> yeah. i think the unfortunate part about this is we are now playing tape, old tape, of chris christie calling state legislators animals. he needs to battle this narrative that he's a mean bully. he has a reputation as someone
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who gets in people's faces. little people, big people. what -- the court of public opinion matters a lot. chris christie operates by his own rules. it's that old-school machine style politics, if you will, that the country has a real distaste for at this point. they want accountability. they want public officials that do the right thing and this smells rotten. >> the question here is if he's done enough with the people affected. isn't there an irony here?
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>> every democrat who did go out and endorse him has a story to tell us. i think we're going to learn more about those stories in the coming weeks, especially as this story unfolds. just as importantly, not just who is behind this and the motives behind it, but after the governor's office was made aware of the closures, who knew about it? and who decided to conceal it? i think we need to know -- since september. it's been three months. i'm assuming a lot of people have been updated on this. as a state legislator, i want to know. governor dean did say, our constituents were put at risk. taxpayers were put at risk and people's lives were put at risk.
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>> it's well put. it's an important issue for you locally. one of the things that we're reporting is that patrick foy was on e-mails raising the question over whether this was illegal and sharing his view that he was a poor decision, a hasty decision, whether or not he agreed it. did he do what was obligated for a public official like that in new jersey? that's an open question. thank you for your time. alex, we're going to see you in about 40 minutes to talk about a very different topic. i want to go to trenton, who got an interview with governor christie yesterday walking out of that meeting. he's stationed with those teams of reporters that we have out there. what do you got? >> reporter: we're talking more than 2,000 packages.
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we continue to sift through. in addition to paying attention to what's being said via e-mail, it is very important to take a look at some of the dates that these e-mails were sent as well. the lane closures happened in september. after sifting through a number of these e-mails, it is clear that the port authority was dealing with a lot of folks in ft. lee. again, that's an e-mail that was sent to the general manager of the george washington bridge. we got this particular e-mail -- it's becoming clear as we sift
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through these e-mails that a number of journalists, paper reporters, online reporters, radio reporters, they had been asking the port authority questions about whether this was politically motivated just a few days after all this started. one of the e-mails -- at one point, david wildstein, he said, i call bs on this. do we have the -- >> we're looking at it. >> i call bs on this. this was wildstein's response. for your information, so you get a flavor of the complaints. we've gotten a half dozen of those plus or minus. >> let me jump in. just to be clear, what we're looking at with these new e-mails there is the level of concern that was being pushed up
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the line of authority. that's what's significant. we know people were inconvenienced by the traffic. the issue is finding out how high this went. looking at some of these new wo reports, there's a meeting between the port authority chairman a week before the traffic problems. this is where the timeline is going to be compared to what the governor told us yesterday, craig. >> reporter: that is what folks are trying to do right now. the chairman of the transportation committee who conducted the hearing yesterday also said he anticipates a lot more questions coming out over the next few days. something else i found interesting here in terms of these e-mails, at one point,
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this is october 9th, the question was asked -- has any thought been given to providing a statement about the george washington bridge study or is the plan to just hunker down and grin our way through it? the response from wildstein was yes, and yes. >> that's where it does get potentially problematic for more individuals than the circle that the governor drew yesterday. i'm seeing this for the first time. it says from one of the state officials, quote, i believe this hasty and ill advised decision violated federal law in the state. it gives you a sense of concern from these senior officials.
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we're going to have much more on this. thank you, craig. for your reporting. coming up, another major story. the white house announcing today that the president will outline proposed changes to the nation's surveillance state a week from today. that's next. my name is jenny, and i quit smoking with chantix. before chantix, i tried to quit probably about five times. it was different than the other times i tried to quit. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix varenicline is proven to help people quit smoking. it's a non-nicotine pill. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. that helped me quit smoking. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking, or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop chantix, and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental-health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it.
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welcome back. today's new evidence that chris christie's administration abused resources for revenge is the captivating story. it is about abusing power. that's why this causes so much outrage. the executive branch is supposed
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to follow the laws. as one supreme court justice once put it, government operating in secret is a menace to free government. that was the foundation for the senate report that spotlighted sp spying abuse. that guidance appears in the call for intelligence reform from president obama's own appointees. the white house announced the president will respond and outline his reforms a week from today. the reform debate may be overdue, but it is one that the president is leading. attorney glen greenwald, welcome. >> great to be with you.
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>> good to be with you. i want you to listen to the press secretary for the president jay carney today on the nsa. take a listen. >> the goal the president has set here is to take measures that create more transparency, introduce reforms that improve the system in a way that gives the american people more confidence. >> they may have been dragged here, but some of the key recommendations are limiting the use of bulk surveillance, building a better wall between the government and phone companies, adding a public defender. what do you think is most important here? >> i think the most important thing is to get real reform, not symbolic gestures. what jay carney said there, it is very similar to the mandate
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of obama's commission was. they try to prettify what they're doing to give the appearance of reforming without reforming. it remains to be seen what will happen here. >> i think that's well put. it is too early to tell. we're going to follow this into next week. the two issues one of which is what is the nsa doing and on the other hand, what are the checks. chief justice roberts has chosen judges with conservative and branch backgrounds.
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it makes the court more likely to defer to court arguments. i do give the president's panel credit for recommended that change. what do you think of that and should the president embrace it? >> one change that actually would be meaningful is if you actually put a public advocate at the court, basically a devil's advocate. right now the only party that can be heard in that court is the government. if only one side gets to have a lawyer making an argument, you can pretty much prove anything, no matter how false it is. that's why the government wins all the time at the fisa court. having a counteradvocate to contest the government's claim, it would be important, but not sufficient to curb all the abuses of the nsa. >> it would go to some of the
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broken oversight and information gaps. normal judges have better options because they have more adversarial information. you don't have to be obsessed with traffic to be concerned with what happened in new jersey with the governor. what do you make of what we're learning in this investigation? you as a lawyer have a lot of experience here. what does it say to you about chris christie's administration? >> two things. first of all, think about how much the story changed once we were able to get the documents that had been hidden from public view. there had been whispers about these lane closures being motivated about political retribution. but until we got our hands on the documents, only then did it become a scandal.
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it shows you how important it is to get the documents that government officials try and hide. that's what transparency does. it shines the light on what's really happening. when i used to write in the bush years about the dangers of the nsa, i used to tell republicans imagine if hillary clinton had these spying powers. i would say to democrats, imagine if an nsa system was in the hands of someone like chris christie and the staff that he has. would you be comfortable allowing this agency to operate in the dark? that gets to the abuse of power question that is at the heart of scandal. >> your thought experiment is not out there. it is what chris christie and others have talked about, which is him becoming president and you're raising an important point, which is do we want
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transparency only as a partisan cudgel in this country? this entire story is different now that we the people are seeing the documents themselves. thank you for your time today. >> thanks. coming up, we are marking the 50th anniversary of the war on poverty. we reveal why many years ago why this senator decided to run for public office. >> i heard this story over and over and over as how a young girl in high school and she was bored of high school and someone suggested, why don't you drop out of high school and have a
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you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your doctor if humira can work for you. this is humira at work. and now we turn to a dip in the nation's jobless rate. the jobs report out today shows a 74,000 jobs added and the plunge in the job rate to 6.7%. speaker boehner said, quote, where are the jobs? they had a different view. >> the short-term employment rate is roughly at where it was during the last expansion and maybe a little below it. the unemployment problem we have is truly concentrated in the long-term unemployment part of it. it is at the heart of the debate at how to move forward on the
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long-term unemployment insurance. >> let me start with what john boehner always says, where are the jobs? i think the counterargument is where's the jobs bill? and where are the jobs benefits? the house isn't under enough pressure to vote on that. >> it's important to note that it is likely those numbers will be revised up. these are just preliminary numbers and are often revised up as were the october and november numbers. there's a view commonly accepted that the extreme weather in december may have cost 75,000 jobs from being added, which would have been there. the president inherited a train wreck in terms of the economy.
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it is going to take time to get the economy back on track. we certainly have not gone as far as we need to go. part of the reason is the republican obstruction in the house of representatives. >> you talk about the jobs created and the president is moving towards a state of the union where he is going to push for a raise in the minimum wage to make sure those are livable wages. number two, i want you to look at this chart. this is from the bureau of labor statistics. the crashing red line is basically what just happened when we cut off benefits for the long-term unemployed. what that basically means is the percent of people who are out of work getting covered by some benefits has crashed. these people are suffering more. what do you make of that and what are you telling your constituents?
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>> it will an adverse impact on the economy. it could cost us about 240,000 jobs that will not be created. you hurt the broader economy because you lowered demand. it reduces economic activity. the loss of economic activity hurts the economy. >> are you in a wait and see mode? >> we are, but we're troubled by the allegations and the information that's come forth. christie referred to state legislators as animals. that's problematic. >> thank you very much congressman for your time today. today's top lines are coming up. we continue to sift through all
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of those new documents. stay with us. s! sorry we're late. did you run into traffic? no, just had to stop by the house to grab a few things. you stopped by the house? uh-huh. yea. alright, whenever you get your stuff, run upstairs, get cleaned up for dinner. you leave the house in good shape? yea. yea, of course. ♪ [ sportscaster talking on tv ] last-second field go-- yea, sure ya did. [ male announcer ] introducing at&t digital life. personalized home security and automation. get professionally monitored security for just $29.99 a month. with limited availability in select markets. ♪
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plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is. governor chris christie's bridge scandal got just a couple of thousand of pages longer. that's all next in today's top lines. e get this straight... [ female voice ] yes? lactaid® is 100% real milk? right. real milk. but it won't cause me discomfort. exactly, because it's milk without the lactose. and it tastes? it's real milk! come on, would i lie about this? [ female announcer ] lactaid. 100% real milk. no discomfort.
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[ male announcer ] this man has an accomplished research and analytical group at his disposal. ♪ but even more impressive is how he puts it to work for his clients. ♪ morning. morning. thanks for meeting so early. oh, it's not a big deal at all. come on in. [ male announcer ] it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. ♪ here are today's top lines. i had no knowledge of this. >> the governor of new jersey chris christie said today he is angry. >> i will probably get angry at some point. >> he's embarrassed. he's humiliated. but he's innocent. >> i had no knowledge or involvement. i had no knowledge of this. i had no knowledge of this and neither did the chief of staff. >> i don't know.
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i think he handled it about as well as he could handle it. >> i also believe him because i think that had he known about this, he never would have -- >> made a joke about these lane closures. >> did his staff really shut down one of the nation's -- >> what they did hurt the people of new jersey. >> -- if not the nation's busiest bridge behind his back? >> it is heart breaking to me that i wasn't told the truth. >> either the governor is lying or he's incompetent. >> i'm humiliated by the fact that i did not know this 37. >> who is this see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil character. >> i'm sad. i'm sad. >> he gets very emotional, indeed. >> chris christie is pathetic.
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ignorance is chris. >> i don't know what the stages of grief are in exact order. >> what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things i've ever heard. >> i know anger gets there at some point. i'm sure i'll have that too. eugene, you wrote in the post that the governor accepted full responsibility but not an ounce of blame. that's very different from saying, someone's a bully. that jumped out to me as well, eugene. there were a lot of "i" statements about personal responsibility, and no "i"
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statements about supervising his employees. >> people will look at was there a pattern of this sort of bullying. he says he didn't do it. his staff did it. but somebody did it. let's look for other examples and see if this sort of thing has taken place before. what i found fascinating about the whole thing was that one little line -- time for some traffic problems in fort lee -- that's all it took to set this whole thing in motion. it was as if it was part of a playbook that everybody understood or everybody studied and practiced over the years. but people are going to try to find out. >> what's the intention behind the statement and where does the intention come from and how many people does it take to pull
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something off like this. i want to repeat what we've said in our reporting. there's no direct evidence that he knew at the time. he has laid out his timeline. let me tell you what he said, as you let it all hang out, you build a jenga tower and a structure that raises the stakes. christie pledged he didn't know about the whole episode, he doesn't condone the culture of bullying, and he was in dark about this quote/unquote traffic study. your take on the jenga. >> it is fragile. he spent a lot of time, not just with his ie messages, but
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reframing the whole thing. he knows how important timelines are. anything he may have said, if there's any daylight between anything he said and anything that comes out whether it is in one of these e-mails or testimony, then the whole thing falls apart. that's the jenga defense. i can tell you as a former political communications person that is the danger of doing something like that. look, you've got to go out there and answer ever single question until there are no more questions, but every single answer has to be 100% correct. >> eugene, go ahead. >> i was going to echo something that karen was just saying and asking her as a communications professional, is it a good idea to leave him out there that long? because the first part of his presentation went better than the second part from his point
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of view. the longer you stand up there, the more sticks you put on the jenga tower and the more opportunities for it to all come crashing down. >> there were 90 questions asked. thank you both. a reminder, you can catch "disrupt" with karen on weekends. we're going to meet with some very special guests straight ahead. plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+.
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glory of god is all around us, hanna. trees, frogs, birdy birds. >> i hate this. >> come on. let's go. >> it's really liberating to say
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[ bleep ] to stuff you hate. >> it debuts its third season. "girls" is one of those shows that you don't have to see in order to hear about. the first two seasons sparked debates just about anything else you can argue about on the internet. we have a panel of experts on much of the above. welcome to everybody. anna, let me start with you. even if you've never seen this show, a lot of people have heard about it. why do you think it has moved so much conversation in two years?
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>> because it is one of the only shows on television that centers around not only a female lead character, but the female experience, so to speak. certainly, there are a lot of plot lines that have to do with relationships with men, but i think at its core and heart it is about female friendships, about the particular struggles of being a 20-something in an expensive urban environment like new york with all of its attendant challenges. dunham has talked about her gender politics and how she tries to weave those into the show. >> i saw a couple of this season's episodes and these prescreeners that were released. >> that's a humble brag. >> is there a hash tag for that?
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it is raw. it is dark. it is unapologetic, which is why i have really loved this show. the new season is like that. it is not only her soul and her body, but also a lot of private details as this character, including a struggle with mental illness. >> why didn't you tell me you were suffering from mental illness? that's something we could have worked with. >> i was embarrassed. >> this stuff is amazing. >> any dot com you want to put it on is fine with me. >> there's an idea here that women in writing and media have to give up a lot of themselves personally to succeed professionally. >> yeah. i will say a couple of things about "girls." people argue a lot about the
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plot lines. i think the reason people are attracted to the show is the writing a fabulous. if you talk about the broader implications of "girls," you can indict a lot of other media. there are more women at the helm of tv shows at main characters, but they're all dysfunctional in some way. all of them are imbalanced or have made crazy personal sacrifices. we have yet to see a very successful national television show with a woman who is balancing it all and doesn't have to bottle mental illness or a dysfunctional relationship with her parents or men. >> i want to read something.
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rather than dispelling anxieties, "girls," leans into them. explain why that matters. >> one of the things that's really powerful about "girls," is the show is about female experience, about living in an urban environment, about being poor. it is about a stage in your life when you don't have everything figured out yet. it is defiantly uncertain. in a media environment, where there's a lot of discussion about what it means to have it all, where there's a lot of pressure to have all of the answers, none of the girls on "girls" have everything figured out yet. it is a relief to be given permission not to know what you want out of life or sex. to be figuring out all of these things as you go along.
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you know, i think the show -- i feel like it is easy to say is show is liberating, but it is so wonderful to have permission to be a mess sometimes. i think that's one of the things that's very exciting about watching it. >> i hesitate when it comes to women being portrayed as messes as punishment for their ambition. some of the shows you mentioned, "homeland" and "scandal," i'm happy they depict women that are complicated, but i do feel at times the writers and creators go too far in punishing the characters. >> oh, yes. any cia agent would be bipolar. that's what it's really like.
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>> right. >> the experience of a 25-year-old in new york is perhaps date raped sometimes. >> that can become an extreme that isn't reflective of everyone. before we go, i want to mention alex wagner, someone who i have gotten to work with and become friends with -- >> we would say it on certain days of the week. every day of the week, we're friends. >> i'm happy you'll be taking over the 4:00 p.m. on monday. >> garfield's least favorite day. perhaps my favorite day. >> you have to tune in monday to find out if there will be lasagna. >> thank you for keeping the seat warm. >> absolutely. thank you for being on this for one. now we are going to be right back.
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coming up right now, "the ed show." that's next. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. >> let's focus on jobs together. >> the clock is ticking. people have got bills to pay. >> this is something the government on its own cannot solve. >> lures people into dependency and prevents them from reaching their god-given potential. >> we're all concerned about those who have had a difficult time trying to find a job. >> what happens if you don't get the extension? how does that affect you looking for a job? >> gas for your car costs money. you need to have a cell phone so people can call you and offer you an interview. >> we've got


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